We Don't Discuss Religion and Politics

Season 5, Episode 10 – Let’s Get Political!

Guest hosts – Rev. Dr. Don Anderson, Executive Minister of the Rhode Island Council of Churches

He is also a member of Jonathan’s church… not that he is ever there, but still on the rolls and still gets letters from Jonathan’s church asking for money.

Read Jonathan’s comments and thoughts on politics and religion at his blog.

From the halls of First Baptist in East Greenwich, RI, Jonathan and Don discuss all of the concerns, considerations, questions, and approaches to the political and the religious. Don had a simple formula of two “P”s:

Policy over Politics

For religion to hold onto some kind of integrity the religious must keep their eye on policy over politics. There is a reality in which politicians will be thinking about themselves and how to further their own agendas and it is easy to fall into that method of thinking. However, it is important to keep your eye on the policy that you are forwarding (and end to hunger, homelessness, immigrant rights, etc.). So two “P” are important, Policy and Politics… and Power

Ok, three Ps

Policy, Politics, and Power

It is important to realize that we are dealing with institutions and principalities that have power over other’s lives. At the same time it is important to realize that we in the religious arena have power. We have power in numbers, we have power in our commitment to policy. When we give into the political then we lose all power. Power is a very real part of the process. So three Ps – Policy, Politics, and Power… and Pastoral Care

Ok, four Ps

Policy, Politics, Power, and Pastoral Care

We are dealing with and working with people. Some of these people have their own religious story and others do not, but they are all people with their own struggles, worries, and ideals. It is important that in working with people in the political arena that we continue to share and show the love of Christ to all that we encounter. Very different for lobbying organizations.

So four Ps, Policy, Politics, Power, and Pastoral Care… unless we have another episode with Don, then there will probably be many, many more.

Rialage –

Don is pining for the Wittenburg Door – a now defunct brilliant magazine of satire poking fun and speaking truth to all aspects of Christianity (and beyond) that make the normal, rational religious folks cringe. Come back Door! Come back!

Jonathan is foaming at the mouth at someone who claims to be Christian who is advocating a taking of arms (not literal arms, but weapons, guns, etc.) in response to Islam. Stupid, stupid, stupid, completely ignoring the theology of the cross, and not to mention, stupid. If you want to read the post (warning, it is pretty stupid), you can find it here.

Scripture-

Matthew 10:16-19 – if you are going to be politically involved then you really should read this passage; be wise as serpents and innocent as doves, and trust in the presence of the Holy Spirit

Watcha’ Into

Don is enjoying time on his boat in the Narragansett Bay (with a Narragansett Light? He didn’t say)

Jonathan enjoyed reading Swamplandia! by Karen Russell. Read his reflections on the book here.

Again, thanks for listening. Send your comments and questions to 12ecast@gmail.com and don’t forget to rate the show on iT

Rest Now!

Season 5, Episode 9 – Vacation and Sabbath

Guest hosts – Marilyn, Anthony F., Anthony J., Beth, and Jeremiah Malone – all related to Jonathan and still willing to take part in this podcast.

Here is the breakdown:

Anthony F. – Jonathan’s dad; a pediatrician and grandfather

Marilyn – Jonathan’s mom; former camp director, former physical therapist, current grandmother and daughter

Beth – Jonathan’s sister; child therapist (play therapy); mother and aunt

Anthony J. – Jonathan’s son; violinist; teenager; youtube at those_wierd_kids

Jeremiah – Jonathan’s son; tuba player; smart aleck

Some of them are members of Emmanuel Baptist Church in Albany, NY

The last of the summer episodes – we will get back to the breakneck speed of recording and posting soon.

From the pastoral, rolling hills and bucolic golfing grounds of Massanutten, VA Jonathan has pulled in his family members to speak about the notion of Sabbath. It figures that even while he is supposed to be on vacation Jonathan still has to do some kind of work-related thing.

First, Sabbath is different then just getting a day off. It is finding that time to reconnect, recharge, and perhaps most importantly finding balance or harmony with one’s relationships. These relationships include those with the family, those with creation, those with the community, that with the self, and that with God. When it is put that way it seems kinda important, doesn’t it?

Part of Sabbath is going to church. Not just because your mother will yell at you if you don’t go to church, but there is something important about being with other people who ascribe and celebrate a similar faith and hold to similar values. Jonathan offered the notion (from Walter Breuggemann) that Sabbath can be an act of protest in the face of a society that is constantly moving from one thing to the next. It is saying that being busy is not always important and does not necessarily increase one’s value as a person.

If nothing else, it is important to step out of the regular rhythms of the week, be intentional about relationships, and take a break. After all, you deserve it!

Rialage –

Watch out all of you golfers because Jonathan is not happy with you. Something about not letting him run on the courses because it isn’t safe. Now if it were disc golf that would be a whole other story.

Marilyn is angry about the behemoth car seats and how much time and energy they take to move from one vehicle to another. It would be better to just have the kid rest on your legs, right?

Jeremiah is angry about the stupid, seemingly arbitrary rules that adults dictate from on high telling kids what they can and cannot do. Stupid rules!

Anthony F. is angry about kids (and adults) not wearing bicycle helmets. Seriously, wear the darn helmet.

Anthony J. realizes that adults just don’t understand especially when it comes to eating.

Scripture-

Micah 6:8

It is a fun one that has a high bar!

Watcha’ Into

Marilyn is into taking a challenge – specifically the rope course/zip line

Anthony J. is into swimming. For some reason when he is holding his breath he can think better.

Beth is kinda into Orange Is The New Black but even more is into playing Ultimate (Frisbee).

Anthony F. is into photography, but even more into not taking pictures and being in the moment without a camera at his side (he is also into experiences of withdrawal)

Jonathan is into Parker Palmer’s book Let Your Life Speak – good read on vocation and living

Again, thanks for listening. Send your comments and questions to 12ecast@gmail.com and don’t forget to rate the show on iTunes.

Holy Spirit Batman!

Season 5, Episode 8 – Don’t Hold Me Back

Guest hosts – Elisai Echevarria, member of Calvary BaptistChurch of New Haven, CT and Rev. Felipe Candelaria, pastor with the Inglesias Bautistas de Puerto Rico

We are in summer mode which is why there was a long break between episodes. Isn’t it nice to have time to listen to previous episodes?

Jonathan is still in Wisconsin (or at least he was when this episode was recorded) and he thought that it might be neat to record another episode. He didn’t plan it, he didn’t prepare, but just decided to go ahead and do it. On top of that he thought it might be fun to have two guests instead of one for this episode. What got into Jonathan’s head?

Well, based on the conversation one could say that it is the working and movement of the Holy Spirit. If you are going to talk about the Holy Spirit, then what better than to have folks from the Hispanic community to be a part of the conversation? We are not saying that white folks are not aware of the presence and movement of the Spirit, but that they just seem to be a little more quiet and calm and sleepy when engaging with the Holy Spirit. Our brothers and sisters in the Hispanic community, on the other hand, seem that have a heightened sensitivity towards the presence of the Holy Spirit and continue to call for Mas y mas!

The conversation touches on the two scriptures that speak about the gifts and the fruits of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23; 1 Corinthians 12:1-10) but then quickly moves to abuses of power. It seems that some folks like to claim that the Holy Spirit is moving them to ask for more money, more power, and more fancy cars. This is not good.

On the other hand, some folks – like many white folks - like to keep the Spirit quite, controlled, and in line. This is also not good. We need to be open to the presence and the movement of the Spirit, to not restrict the presence of the Spirit, and always be aware of those who through various means use claims of the presence of the Spirit to grab power.

Rialage –

Jonathan has issues with nuts. Specifically the nuts who think it is ok to carry any gun you want wherever you want. I guess these are the open carry gun nuts. It just isn’t safe for everyone else. Put your guns away. Carry bread and roses instead. Jonathan is pro open carry of bread and roses.

Felipe has issues with the Apostolic movement as it has been occurring within the Hispanic community. This might be a website about them.

Eli is angry at the Prosperity Gospel. It is just weak and dangerous theology!

Scripture-

Genesis 25:29-34

Watcha’ Into

Felipe is reading a biography on Dietrich Bonhoeffer (maybe this one by Eric Metaxas) – a righteous individual if there ever was one!

Eli is reading Radical by David Platt and enjoys working with young people in his church.

Jonathan is just hanging out with his friends. What a lazy slob!

Again, thanks for listening. Send your comments and questions to 12ecast@gmail.com and don’t forget to rate the show on iTunes.

Next episode – Sabbath with the Malone Family (or some of them)!

Forgive This...

Season 5, Episode 7 – A Dash of Forgiveness

Guest host – Andy Arndt – Prison Chaplin for the State of Indiana

From the great state of Wisconsin, in the picturesque town of Green Lake, at the American Baptist Assembly, Jonathan and Andy snuck away from meetings to record this episode. Boring conversation anyway (HA!).

Andy and Jonathan tackle the topic of Forgiveness – something that Andy deals with first-hand in his work at the State Prison. Hopefully it is something that we all work with. Offering forgiveness because we never need it, right?

The tricky part with forgiveness is bringing someone back into the community. We forgive but in a wounded, hesitant way. Fool me once, shame on me, and I will do all that I can to make sure that you can never, ever fool me again. That means I will never fully trust you again, I will not feel safe with you again. The relationship we once had will never be the same. In the grand scheme of things this is not what forgiveness should be but is the reality. In a sense it is someone saying, “I am willing to take a chance with you again, but it will not be the same as it once was.”

Jonathan and Andy talk about this tragic reality of forgiveness on the societal level as well as the personal. They do not end with any big ideas but with a recognition that forgiveness is difficult and full inclusion after the fact is near impossible. Thanks for the uplifting thoughts guys.

Rialage –

Both Jonathan and Andy are on the Board of General Ministries of the American Baptist Churches, U.S.A. and are in the thick of meetings. So it would make sense that Jonathan would get all hot and bothered about meetings. Maybe he should widen his world view for once in a while.

He should take a hint from Andy who is angry about the notion that the government (state or federal) can legislate the boundaries of marriage. For Andy it is a question about the separation of Church and State. He is clear that he is not saying he is taking one position or another (but he really is, right?), but that he is just angry about people thinking that the government can get muddled in the notions and values of religious institutions.

Scripture-

1 Corinthians 10:6-13, especially verse 13. It isn’t that verse 13 is great (although it is a fun little verse), it is more that people tend to take it out of context and use it as one of those trite, Hallmark theology aphorisms – “God doesn’t give you more than you can handle.” Yuck! Seriously, don’t say that – it is worse than misusing the word, “literarily”

Watcha’ Into

Explicit lyric warning – Andy is into the newest Eminem album: Marshall Matters LP2 – you probably shouldn’t listen to it with your kids. Or with your parents.

Jonathan is kinda into the book 10 Degrees of Reckoning. True to form he can’t just like something but has to find something wrong with it and criticize it. Read his reflection here and then you decide if he needs help.

Again, thanks for listening. Send your comments and questions to 12ecast@gmail.com and don’t forget to rate the show on iTunes.

Next episode – The Holy Spirit with Pastor Felipe Candelaria and Elisai Echevarria

Holy Saints!

Season 5, Episode 6 – Saints Among Us!

Guest host – Father Jakob Lazarus Thibault, pastor of the Church of the Holy Paraclete – his second time… has he not yet learned?

What does a Baptist know about Saints? Not much. It is not a part of his low-church, Protestant evangelical, tradition. That is why Jonathan returned once again to his go-to Catholic, Fr. Jakob Thibault. Jakob tries to guide Jonathan to a place where he can embrace the notion of the presence of the saints in his life while sneaking in a heaping of Thomas Aquinas in the process.

When it comes to talking and thinking about saints it is important to start with the promise of the cross – life with God. The resurrection of Christ is assurance Christians claim of that life with God. If we believe in this resurrection, and we believe that we are assured life with God, then there is room to believe that those who have died are living with God and can have a presence in our lives. The veil between life and death is thin.

The idea of saints is, in part, lifting up those who lived extraordinary lives and looking to those people for inspiration, guidance, and prayers in our own lives. Such a notion does not seem too difficult for Jonathan to understand, but sometimes he is slow.

Jonathan and Jakob did spend some time talking about the mechanics of the process and perhaps suggest that things move a little too quickly, that it may be a little too political, and that perhaps everyone should slow down before labeling someone a saint. But who is going to listen to them? Jonathan would make a great Devil’s Advocate… hint, hint.

Finally, the book Jonathan mentioned is, Thank You Saint Jude by Robert Orsi, and the movie that Jakob mentioned is Millions.

Rialage –

Jakob is angry about contractors and the like not following through with what they said they would do. If you cannot take someone at their word, then what do you have?

Jonathan is angry about Albert Mohler’s view of Original Sin. See his blog post here for the full rant. Clearly Jonathan needs to read more Thomas Aquinas.

Scripture-

John 7:37-39 – a secondary passage to the Pentecost story highlighting the nature and the presence of the Holy Spirit. An important part of a Christian’s faith and life in the here and now!

Here is a picture of the candle mentioned in the podcast:

Watcha’ Into

Jakob is into math and preparing for his GREs. Weird.

Jonathan is into the Rhode Island Fruit Growers Association Farm Scavenger Hunt. Also weird.

Again, thanks for listening. Send your comments and questions to 12ecast@gmail.com and don’t forget to rate the show on iTunes.

Next episode – Forgiveness and Reconciliation with Andy Arndt