Holy Spirit Batman!

Season 5, Episode 8 – Don’t Hold Me Back

Guest hosts – Elisai Echevarria, member of Calvary BaptistChurch of New Haven, CT and Rev. Felipe Candelaria, pastor with the Inglesias Bautistas de Puerto Rico

We are in summer mode which is why there was a long break between episodes. Isn’t it nice to have time to listen to previous episodes?

Jonathan is still in Wisconsin (or at least he was when this episode was recorded) and he thought that it might be neat to record another episode. He didn’t plan it, he didn’t prepare, but just decided to go ahead and do it. On top of that he thought it might be fun to have two guests instead of one for this episode. What got into Jonathan’s head?

Well, based on the conversation one could say that it is the working and movement of the Holy Spirit. If you are going to talk about the Holy Spirit, then what better than to have folks from the Hispanic community to be a part of the conversation? We are not saying that white folks are not aware of the presence and movement of the Spirit, but that they just seem to be a little more quiet and calm and sleepy when engaging with the Holy Spirit. Our brothers and sisters in the Hispanic community, on the other hand, seem that have a heightened sensitivity towards the presence of the Holy Spirit and continue to call for Mas y mas!

The conversation touches on the two scriptures that speak about the gifts and the fruits of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23; 1 Corinthians 12:1-10) but then quickly moves to abuses of power. It seems that some folks like to claim that the Holy Spirit is moving them to ask for more money, more power, and more fancy cars. This is not good.

On the other hand, some folks – like many white folks - like to keep the Spirit quite, controlled, and in line. This is also not good. We need to be open to the presence and the movement of the Spirit, to not restrict the presence of the Spirit, and always be aware of those who through various means use claims of the presence of the Spirit to grab power.

Rialage –

Jonathan has issues with nuts. Specifically the nuts who think it is ok to carry any gun you want wherever you want. I guess these are the open carry gun nuts. It just isn’t safe for everyone else. Put your guns away. Carry bread and roses instead. Jonathan is pro open carry of bread and roses.

Felipe has issues with the Apostolic movement as it has been occurring within the Hispanic community. This might be a website about them.

Eli is angry at the Prosperity Gospel. It is just weak and dangerous theology!

Scripture-

Genesis 25:29-34

Watcha’ Into

Felipe is reading a biography on Dietrich Bonhoeffer (maybe this one by Eric Metaxas) – a righteous individual if there ever was one!

Eli is reading Radical by David Platt and enjoys working with young people in his church.

Jonathan is just hanging out with his friends. What a lazy slob!

Again, thanks for listening. Send your comments and questions to 12ecast@gmail.com and don’t forget to rate the show on iTunes.

Next episode – Sabbath with the Malone Family (or some of them)!

Forgive This...

Season 5, Episode 7 – A Dash of Forgiveness

Guest host – Andy Arndt – Prison Chaplin for the State of Indiana

From the great state of Wisconsin, in the picturesque town of Green Lake, at the American Baptist Assembly, Jonathan and Andy snuck away from meetings to record this episode. Boring conversation anyway (HA!).

Andy and Jonathan tackle the topic of Forgiveness – something that Andy deals with first-hand in his work at the State Prison. Hopefully it is something that we all work with. Offering forgiveness because we never need it, right?

The tricky part with forgiveness is bringing someone back into the community. We forgive but in a wounded, hesitant way. Fool me once, shame on me, and I will do all that I can to make sure that you can never, ever fool me again. That means I will never fully trust you again, I will not feel safe with you again. The relationship we once had will never be the same. In the grand scheme of things this is not what forgiveness should be but is the reality. In a sense it is someone saying, “I am willing to take a chance with you again, but it will not be the same as it once was.”

Jonathan and Andy talk about this tragic reality of forgiveness on the societal level as well as the personal. They do not end with any big ideas but with a recognition that forgiveness is difficult and full inclusion after the fact is near impossible. Thanks for the uplifting thoughts guys.

Rialage –

Both Jonathan and Andy are on the Board of General Ministries of the American Baptist Churches, U.S.A. and are in the thick of meetings. So it would make sense that Jonathan would get all hot and bothered about meetings. Maybe he should widen his world view for once in a while.

He should take a hint from Andy who is angry about the notion that the government (state or federal) can legislate the boundaries of marriage. For Andy it is a question about the separation of Church and State. He is clear that he is not saying he is taking one position or another (but he really is, right?), but that he is just angry about people thinking that the government can get muddled in the notions and values of religious institutions.

Scripture-

1 Corinthians 10:6-13, especially verse 13. It isn’t that verse 13 is great (although it is a fun little verse), it is more that people tend to take it out of context and use it as one of those trite, Hallmark theology aphorisms – “God doesn’t give you more than you can handle.” Yuck! Seriously, don’t say that – it is worse than misusing the word, “literarily”

Watcha’ Into

Explicit lyric warning – Andy is into the newest Eminem album: Marshall Matters LP2 – you probably shouldn’t listen to it with your kids. Or with your parents.

Jonathan is kinda into the book 10 Degrees of Reckoning. True to form he can’t just like something but has to find something wrong with it and criticize it. Read his reflection here and then you decide if he needs help.

Again, thanks for listening. Send your comments and questions to 12ecast@gmail.com and don’t forget to rate the show on iTunes.

Next episode – The Holy Spirit with Pastor Felipe Candelaria and Elisai Echevarria

Holy Saints!

Season 5, Episode 6 – Saints Among Us!

Guest host – Father Jakob Lazarus Thibault, pastor of the Church of the Holy Paraclete – his second time… has he not yet learned?

What does a Baptist know about Saints? Not much. It is not a part of his low-church, Protestant evangelical, tradition. That is why Jonathan returned once again to his go-to Catholic, Fr. Jakob Thibault. Jakob tries to guide Jonathan to a place where he can embrace the notion of the presence of the saints in his life while sneaking in a heaping of Thomas Aquinas in the process.

When it comes to talking and thinking about saints it is important to start with the promise of the cross – life with God. The resurrection of Christ is assurance Christians claim of that life with God. If we believe in this resurrection, and we believe that we are assured life with God, then there is room to believe that those who have died are living with God and can have a presence in our lives. The veil between life and death is thin.

The idea of saints is, in part, lifting up those who lived extraordinary lives and looking to those people for inspiration, guidance, and prayers in our own lives. Such a notion does not seem too difficult for Jonathan to understand, but sometimes he is slow.

Jonathan and Jakob did spend some time talking about the mechanics of the process and perhaps suggest that things move a little too quickly, that it may be a little too political, and that perhaps everyone should slow down before labeling someone a saint. But who is going to listen to them? Jonathan would make a great Devil’s Advocate… hint, hint.

Finally, the book Jonathan mentioned is, Thank You Saint Jude by Robert Orsi, and the movie that Jakob mentioned is Millions.

Rialage –

Jakob is angry about contractors and the like not following through with what they said they would do. If you cannot take someone at their word, then what do you have?

Jonathan is angry about Albert Mohler’s view of Original Sin. See his blog post here for the full rant. Clearly Jonathan needs to read more Thomas Aquinas.

Scripture-

John 7:37-39 – a secondary passage to the Pentecost story highlighting the nature and the presence of the Holy Spirit. An important part of a Christian’s faith and life in the here and now!

Here is a picture of the candle mentioned in the podcast:

Watcha’ Into

Jakob is into math and preparing for his GREs. Weird.

Jonathan is into the Rhode Island Fruit Growers Association Farm Scavenger Hunt. Also weird.

Again, thanks for listening. Send your comments and questions to 12ecast@gmail.com and don’t forget to rate the show on iTunes.

Next episode – Forgiveness and Reconciliation with Andy Arndt

Bow Your Heads, Close Your Eyes

Season 5, Episode 5 – Take a Deep Breath

Guest host – Rev. Dr. Linda Forsberg, pastor of the FirstLutheran Church of East Greenwich, RI

There is not a wrong way to pray. Actually there are wrong ways to pray, but there is not the one, perfect, surefire way to pray. It will vary from person to person, context to context, and where you are in your life. With this in mind what does Jonathan think he is doing when he suggests that perhaps he can offer a way to pray? That is why he needs the help and guidance of Linda Forsberg. Linda has spent a lot of time thinking, studying, and praying about prayer (no irony there) and has a lot of wisdom to offer.

First, prayer is relational. At the least you are relating with God, but more than that your prayers are bringing you into a deeper relationship with others. Your connection with the community deepens and grows when you pray with and for others. Your relationship with God grows through your prayers.

Second, you can use different texts as a source, guide for prayer. They do not have to be texts that lift you up, or encourage you, but can be texts that challenge and push you. As Linda suggests, you can have the Wall Street Journal in one hand and use it as an influence for your prayers.

Third, prayer is important. Scratch that, prayer is essential. You need to pray. You need to work on your awareness of the divine and your relationship with the divine. Take time to pray in the way that works best for you. And maybe you can pray for this podcast. Maybe you can pray for Jonathan. He needs it.

Rialage –

Jonathan is angry at those pastors who feel that they can go through life and ministry alone, without any support or help or guidance from anyone else. Pastors like… Jonathan. He really needs to start attending the local clergy group!

Linda is angry about racism. Small and simple. She is angry about the many different ways racism is still a real part of our culture, still has a negative impact on many people’s lives, and is still something that we all need to work on.

Scripture-

Acts 1:6-14 – the Ascension! This is a big deal because it tells us that Jesus does not die (again) but is living with God. It gives us something to consider with prayer and being in the presence of the Lord.

Watcha’ Into

Linda loves blogging. Check it out at www.lifeasspiritualadventure.org

Jonathan finally finished the 40 Hikes found in the book byKen Weber

Again, thanks for listening. Send your comments and questions to 12ecast@gmail.com and don’t forget to rate the show on iTunes.

Next episode – Saints with Father Jakob Theibault

There Are No Wrong Notes (just wrong keys)!

Show notes for Season 5, episode 4 – Bebop Hermeneutics (cool man, cool)

For this episode Jonathan is joined by the Rev. Tom Wiles, executive minister of the American Baptist Churches of Rhode Island

How do you read the Bible? Let’s start off by stating that any general, all-encompassing approach to Biblical interpretation needs to be very broad or will be problematic. Hence the literal reading of scripture (the notion that what it says is exactly what it means, no questions asked) is flawed… to say the least. You cannot take anything at face value, especially things in print that were written thousand of years ago.  Guest host, Tom Wiles, offers a different, creative way to approach scripture (or any other text for that matter) that draws upon the art of improvisation.

When one is dealing with improvisation in a musical or dramatic setting there is a tension between the rules, the context, and the freedom of the artist. While one has a freedom to offer ideas and expression, it needs to be part of the music playing (in the right key), or true to the larger context of the drama on stage. When reading text you need to stay with the broader context of the writings, the tradition that you come out of, and/or the community you are a part of. You can push and explore, but there needs to be some relevancy. Good improve works when things make sense and at the same time push the text and the audience.

Improve is done within a community. You can read on your own, but you need the support, guidance, and at times foundation of the community to guide you in your reading and engaging with the scripture.

Improve calls for listening. You need to listen to the text, to what other people are doing/saying, respond, and then listen some more. This calls for more community.

Improve invites correction. When you are working with a text in an improvisatory manner you are trying out different things and looking to be pulled back in or encouraged to continue. Again, we need more community.

In essence, Jonathan and Tom are encouraging people to read scripture, to take chances with scripture, but to do it within and through a community/church. Play with the text, have some fun, but don’t forget to listen.

Check out the great book TheArt of Biblical Narrative by Robert Alter for another great approach to reading scripture.

Rialage –

Jonathan is annoyed with bad theology, the kind where people say that God has a plan, or that your loved one is in a better place, or that everything happens for a reason. Tom could only sit back and try to not be overwhelmed with Jonathan’s white-hot rage at bad theology (he was probably afraid of saying something inflammatory).

Scripture-

Genesis 22:1-14 – the binding/sacrifice of Isaac

In this passage Abraham is called to sacrifice his son (his only, beloved son) to God. Tom suggests the notion that it was Abraham’s willingness to listen for God’s further calling that stayed his hand and saves Isaac. Good point.

You should check out Soren Kierkegaard’s Fear and Trembling for a great philosophical treatment on this passage

Watcha’ Into

Jonathan is reading An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding by David Hume – nerd!

Tom is a more relaxed, down-to-earth kind of person reading Any Other Name by Craig Johnson

Again, thanks for listening. Send your comments and questions to 12ecast@gmail.com and don’t forget to rate the show on iTunes.

Next episode – Prayer with the Rev. Linda Forsberg