Holy Saints!

Season 5, Episode 6 – Saints Among Us!

Guest host – Father Jakob Lazarus Thibault, pastor of the Church of the Holy Paraclete – his second time… has he not yet learned?

What does a Baptist know about Saints? Not much. It is not a part of his low-church, Protestant evangelical, tradition. That is why Jonathan returned once again to his go-to Catholic, Fr. Jakob Thibault. Jakob tries to guide Jonathan to a place where he can embrace the notion of the presence of the saints in his life while sneaking in a heaping of Thomas Aquinas in the process.

When it comes to talking and thinking about saints it is important to start with the promise of the cross – life with God. The resurrection of Christ is assurance Christians claim of that life with God. If we believe in this resurrection, and we believe that we are assured life with God, then there is room to believe that those who have died are living with God and can have a presence in our lives. The veil between life and death is thin.

The idea of saints is, in part, lifting up those who lived extraordinary lives and looking to those people for inspiration, guidance, and prayers in our own lives. Such a notion does not seem too difficult for Jonathan to understand, but sometimes he is slow.

Jonathan and Jakob did spend some time talking about the mechanics of the process and perhaps suggest that things move a little too quickly, that it may be a little too political, and that perhaps everyone should slow down before labeling someone a saint. But who is going to listen to them? Jonathan would make a great Devil’s Advocate… hint, hint.

Finally, the book Jonathan mentioned is, Thank You Saint Jude by Robert Orsi, and the movie that Jakob mentioned is Millions.

Rialage –

Jakob is angry about contractors and the like not following through with what they said they would do. If you cannot take someone at their word, then what do you have?

Jonathan is angry about Albert Mohler’s view of Original Sin. See his blog post here for the full rant. Clearly Jonathan needs to read more Thomas Aquinas.

Scripture-

John 7:37-39 – a secondary passage to the Pentecost story highlighting the nature and the presence of the Holy Spirit. An important part of a Christian’s faith and life in the here and now!

Here is a picture of the candle mentioned in the podcast:

Watcha’ Into

Jakob is into math and preparing for his GREs. Weird.

Jonathan is into the Rhode Island Fruit Growers Association Farm Scavenger Hunt. Also weird.

Again, thanks for listening. Send your comments and questions to 12ecast@gmail.com and don’t forget to rate the show on iTunes.

Next episode – Forgiveness and Reconciliation with Andy Arndt

Bow Your Heads, Close Your Eyes

Season 5, Episode 5 – Take a Deep Breath

Guest host – Rev. Dr. Linda Forsberg, pastor of the FirstLutheran Church of East Greenwich, RI

There is not a wrong way to pray. Actually there are wrong ways to pray, but there is not the one, perfect, surefire way to pray. It will vary from person to person, context to context, and where you are in your life. With this in mind what does Jonathan think he is doing when he suggests that perhaps he can offer a way to pray? That is why he needs the help and guidance of Linda Forsberg. Linda has spent a lot of time thinking, studying, and praying about prayer (no irony there) and has a lot of wisdom to offer.

First, prayer is relational. At the least you are relating with God, but more than that your prayers are bringing you into a deeper relationship with others. Your connection with the community deepens and grows when you pray with and for others. Your relationship with God grows through your prayers.

Second, you can use different texts as a source, guide for prayer. They do not have to be texts that lift you up, or encourage you, but can be texts that challenge and push you. As Linda suggests, you can have the Wall Street Journal in one hand and use it as an influence for your prayers.

Third, prayer is important. Scratch that, prayer is essential. You need to pray. You need to work on your awareness of the divine and your relationship with the divine. Take time to pray in the way that works best for you. And maybe you can pray for this podcast. Maybe you can pray for Jonathan. He needs it.

Rialage –

Jonathan is angry at those pastors who feel that they can go through life and ministry alone, without any support or help or guidance from anyone else. Pastors like… Jonathan. He really needs to start attending the local clergy group!

Linda is angry about racism. Small and simple. She is angry about the many different ways racism is still a real part of our culture, still has a negative impact on many people’s lives, and is still something that we all need to work on.

Scripture-

Acts 1:6-14 – the Ascension! This is a big deal because it tells us that Jesus does not die (again) but is living with God. It gives us something to consider with prayer and being in the presence of the Lord.

Watcha’ Into

Linda loves blogging. Check it out at www.lifeasspiritualadventure.org

Jonathan finally finished the 40 Hikes found in the book byKen Weber

Again, thanks for listening. Send your comments and questions to 12ecast@gmail.com and don’t forget to rate the show on iTunes.

Next episode – Saints with Father Jakob Theibault

There Are No Wrong Notes (just wrong keys)!

Show notes for Season 5, episode 4 – Bebop Hermeneutics (cool man, cool)

For this episode Jonathan is joined by the Rev. Tom Wiles, executive minister of the American Baptist Churches of Rhode Island

How do you read the Bible? Let’s start off by stating that any general, all-encompassing approach to Biblical interpretation needs to be very broad or will be problematic. Hence the literal reading of scripture (the notion that what it says is exactly what it means, no questions asked) is flawed… to say the least. You cannot take anything at face value, especially things in print that were written thousand of years ago.  Guest host, Tom Wiles, offers a different, creative way to approach scripture (or any other text for that matter) that draws upon the art of improvisation.

When one is dealing with improvisation in a musical or dramatic setting there is a tension between the rules, the context, and the freedom of the artist. While one has a freedom to offer ideas and expression, it needs to be part of the music playing (in the right key), or true to the larger context of the drama on stage. When reading text you need to stay with the broader context of the writings, the tradition that you come out of, and/or the community you are a part of. You can push and explore, but there needs to be some relevancy. Good improve works when things make sense and at the same time push the text and the audience.

Improve is done within a community. You can read on your own, but you need the support, guidance, and at times foundation of the community to guide you in your reading and engaging with the scripture.

Improve calls for listening. You need to listen to the text, to what other people are doing/saying, respond, and then listen some more. This calls for more community.

Improve invites correction. When you are working with a text in an improvisatory manner you are trying out different things and looking to be pulled back in or encouraged to continue. Again, we need more community.

In essence, Jonathan and Tom are encouraging people to read scripture, to take chances with scripture, but to do it within and through a community/church. Play with the text, have some fun, but don’t forget to listen.

Check out the great book TheArt of Biblical Narrative by Robert Alter for another great approach to reading scripture.

Rialage –

Jonathan is annoyed with bad theology, the kind where people say that God has a plan, or that your loved one is in a better place, or that everything happens for a reason. Tom could only sit back and try to not be overwhelmed with Jonathan’s white-hot rage at bad theology (he was probably afraid of saying something inflammatory).

Scripture-

Genesis 22:1-14 – the binding/sacrifice of Isaac

In this passage Abraham is called to sacrifice his son (his only, beloved son) to God. Tom suggests the notion that it was Abraham’s willingness to listen for God’s further calling that stayed his hand and saves Isaac. Good point.

You should check out Soren Kierkegaard’s Fear and Trembling for a great philosophical treatment on this passage

Watcha’ Into

Jonathan is reading An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding by David Hume – nerd!

Tom is a more relaxed, down-to-earth kind of person reading Any Other Name by Craig Johnson

Again, thanks for listening. Send your comments and questions to 12ecast@gmail.com and don’t forget to rate the show on iTunes.

Next episode – Prayer with the Rev. Linda Forsberg

Both/And...Ouch My Head Hurts!

Notes for Season 5, Episode 3 – Both/And… Blowing Your Mind

Father Anthony, Doug, Perkins decided Jonathan did not have enough of the good ole’ Orthodox way (Ukrainian Orthodox to be specific) and joins us again as a guest host for this episode. They decided to take it slow and easy and to talk about the nature of the incarnation, i.e. how Jesus can be understood as both God and human. First off, we all need to remember that Doug and Jonathan are talking about a mystery of God and will never be able to fully explain or understand what it is that they are talking about. But that is not new.

They share views from two different schools of thoughts:

Alexandrian School

·      Focuses on the saving nature (soteriological character) of Christ through the incarnation

o   In order to be salvific the human is made divine and thus must be united with the divine nature of God

·      God becomes human so that humans might become (like) God

·      Cyril of Alexandria is one of the poster kids of this school of thought

·      Through this approach the ethical life is lifted up

Antiochine School

·      Concerned with the moral life

·      The Word (God) assumes a specific human being

·      Redemption is based on a new obedience of humanity

o   To get this there must be a unity of human and divine

·      Hypostatic union is one way of explaining/speaking about that union

·      Athanasius is one of the poster kids of this school of thought

With both we are called to consider the miracle of the incarnation and the implication that it has for us. I.e. through uniting with God we are brought into a new life/are lead to live an ethical life. Neither school is right and both are slightly confusing. If you learned Greek then it would only be slightly less confusing.

Here is the altar that Jonathan had to keep nervously avoiding eye-contact with throughout the whole conversation:

Scripture:

Acts 7:55-60 – the death of Stephen

Remember the martyrs of your faith tradition, the witness they gave to the person of Christ and his ministry. Be a martyr, but don’t look to die in doing it… just be a good witness.

Into:

Jonathan just read an interesting book about the Boston Molasses Flood in 1919 – Dark Tide by Stephen Puleo

Anthony is reading and working on the ideas of Jonathan Haidt’s work The Righteous Mind

Both need to get their noses out of the books and go outside and play. Nerds!

Thanks again for listening and don’t forget to leave a comment on iTunes or send a note to 12ecast@gmail.com

Educate Me!

12enough, Season 5,Episode 2

This week Jonathan is joined by the Rev. Paul Robeson Ford, the pastor of the historic Union Baptist Church of historic Cambridge in historic Massachusetts. Paul’s presence makes the whole episode historic.

            Paul is joining Jonathan to talk about education in the church context. Jonathan’s problem is that he has been reading Michel Foucault’s Discipline and Punish: The Birth of the Prison. We should wonder if maybe he is seeing church work as analogous to prison work… hopefully not. If Jonathan really wants to know what prison is like he should be watching Orange is the New Black – it is a true-to-life depiction. Much more than Oz ever was.

            Foucault goes into great length and detail about how discipline can shape the body; forming it into the person, worker, etc. that you want it to be. Time and energy is spent on the minutia of movements, the most basic of thoughts in order to more greatly shape and influence the whole. Now a religious community is not a prison (in most cases), but the approach to discipline has some merit. In worship one is learning how to physically be religious through the repetition and imitation of others. If you are surrounded by others who raise their hands during songs then in time you very well may do the same. If you see everyone bow their heads when they pray you may do the same. You learn the words that are said, you learn a way of speaking that reflects faith.

            Even more happens in Bible studies, Sunday School, and in other aspects of the life of the church. In those instances more is spent on the sharing of information, but still a shaping of the body occurs. It is good and important to be aware of this and to be deliberate in shaping and helping to form people in good habits of faith. What that looks like will vary from community to community. It happens whether people are deliberate or not, so make it deliberate.

Railage

            Paul takes the high road and is angry about the over 200 schoolgirls who were kidnapped in Nigeria. He is even more angry about the lack of political will in the United States to get involved. Since the recording of this episode we have seen some progress, but there is still much that can and should be done. Jonathan just jumps on the bandwagon – wuss.

Scripture

Job 14:7-9

 ‘For there is hope for a tree,

   if it is cut down, that it will sprout again,

   and that its shoots will not cease.

Though its root grows old in the earth,

   and its stump dies in the ground,

yet at the scent of water it will bud

   and put forth branches like a young plant.

Taken out of context this seems like a very nice and hopeful passage – not typical for Job. It is good to find a moment of hope when you are in a place of struggle and suffering. Make sure to read a little before and a little after to get a sense of the dissonance in Job’s experience.

Watcha’ Into?

Paul is watching the NBA playoffs. Apparently that is a basketball game that is played again and again and again.

Jonathan watched Les Miserables and found it long and plodding. What is his problem?

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Thanks for listening!