There Is Forgiveness?

Show Notes for Season 4, Episode 3

I admit it, this is going to be a “slap-dash” posting. I am behind with show notes and want to catch up. So….

With the main topic Jonathan and Darin finish their conversation about sin and talk about the role of the cross. They look at a couple of different views:

Substitutionary Atonement – Christ died for our sins, plain and simple. Not much emphasis on the resurrection, but that wasn’t as hard as the crucifixion so should not have that great of an impact

Existential Christianity (via Paul Tillich) – In the crucifixion and the resurrection we see the greatest despair and in response the greatest hope. The crucifixion shows us how far humanity can fall and the resurrection show us how much God can love (there is no limit). Great view of the resurrection, but not a great view of the crucifixion.

Rene Girard – Scapegoat theory and more! Basically in the crucifixion Christ takes on the desires and rage and jealousy of humanity and ends the cycle (or demonstrates it for the world to see). In the resurrection the cycles is full broken. Keeps a sense of the atonement but weak on resurrection.

What both Jonathan and Darin are trying to say is that the crucifixion and resurrection are important, perhaps the apex of Christian faith, and needs to be taken seriously. It also means that it cannot be neatly packaged into one idea or another but always pushes beyond.

Rialige –

Jonathan is ticked off at the Methodist campaign about “rethinkingchurch” – it is nothing new or radical, just ignored

Darin offers a list of the worst companies when it comes to employ payment. Get ready to feel guilty (at least it isn’t Walmart).

Opening the Word -

Deuteronomy 26:1-11

Remember that what you have is from God, what you gain is from God, and please, please, please remember to offer thanks to God!

Watcha Into -

Jonathan is snotty and is watching Ingmar Bergman’s Through a Glass Darkly

Darin is watching one of the greatest shows ever: Firefly

Remember to rate us on ITunes!

We are Mired in It!

Wink and Rauschenbusch – sin in society

Season 4, episode 2

Because we can’t keep our sinning to just one episode…

Because sin goes beyond the human individual….

Because sin effects us all in many different ways…

We decided to continue our thoughts and comments on sin. Once again we are lucky to have Darin Collins as our guest host with Jonathan. The podcast was organically recorded in Harrisville, RI – all natural.

In this episode we start with Rauschenbusch and his classic text, A Theology for the Social Gospel. As Jonathan so rudely pointed out, it is important to keep Rauschenbusch in historical context, especially as he dismisses the 1^st and 2^nd Commandments. Apparently we still have a difficult time honoring the Lord God and not putting any other God’s before the divine. Rauschenbusch does point to ways in which corporations and systems are all part and parcel to sinful workings in society.

Walter Wink looks at the powers and principles and the ways in which they control or manipulate institutions/people to do sinful things. Churches are not necessarily bad, just corrupt at times. Banks do not have to be the enemy, only when they are possessed.

The trouble is trying to exist in such a world, with such systemic sin. It is something that we cannot avoid no matter how hard we may try. Kinda makes you sad and wish there was another way or option or some kind of redemption. That is another episode for another time. The point is that sin is bigger than simply the individual and effects us all at many different walks of life. And we, as Christians (or really nice people who aren’t Christians but who want to make a difference in the world) should call out sin as what it is.

So when Jesus says, “Go and sin no more…” is there a way to answer that holds the complexity of the reality of the world?

Rialige –

Darin is angry about drone warfare and the innocent people that are dying – not to mention the dissociation from violence that drones produce

Jonathan is angry about Christians who are trying to take away Halloween. Lets keep Christ out of Halloween!

Opening the Word –

Luke 24:44-49

If you are going to read scripture with a bias (which all Christians do) let’s at least be honest about it. We read scripture through the lens of Jesus Christ and that means we are going to have particular ways of understanding the text.

Also, wait

Wait for the Holy Spirit

Don’t rush it

Wait

Watcha Into

Darin is into DirtyWars, a documentary by Jeremary Scahill; no wonder he is so cranky all the time

Jonathan is reading Freud, Introductory Lectures to Psycho-Analysis; no wonder he is so nerdy all the time

Thanks for listening and reading and doing all the other things that you do. Please let us know what you think and rate us on Itunes – it really does help!

Sin, Sin, Sin, Sin

Show Notes for Season4, Episode 1

<<NOTE: Sing the title of the post to the Monty Python "Spam" song>>

We’re getting our sin on! Considering the economy, the crime rate, the general drop in beautiful people, can you blame us for looking to get a little sinful? In this historic first episode with Darin Collins we begin what looks like will be a three-part series on sin.

Jonathan is trying to tow an orthodox line by starting with Augustine and bringing in a little bit of Aquinas. Who would have thought that Jonathan could actually be orthodox? Darin, on the other hand, is a madman who goes right to James McClendon’s understanding of sin (from his systematic theology). Darin has no sense of boundary or propriety.

Here is a basic break-down. Sin can be an individual thing, a breaking of relationships with God and others. That is not good and makes everyone sad.

Sin can also be a social thing, a sense of not living with the ordering of the reign of God (or as Yoder might say, with the grain of the universe). We are not fully aware of how we sin until we embrace the grace of Christ. It is at that point when our eyes are opened to the ways that God desires us to live. Once again, when we do not live in a way that fits with God’s reign then everyone is sad.

In conclusion, sin makes people (and God) sad.

Railige:

Darin hates the 1%. Actually he doesn’t hate the 1%, he just hates the way they seem to be getting all of the profit gains while the majority are working more and having nothing to show for it.

Jonathan is angry at crazy reconstructionist Christians who seem to be pushing for a total government collapse that can be replaced with a theocracy. Why can’t Jonathan just relax?

Opening the Word:

John 7:37-39

Darin tackles this one and offers a transgendered view of Jesus (not really, but kinda). Read it and look for Christ’s new creation.

Whatca’ Into?

Darin is watching Hunted (not to be confused with the 1980s classic Hunter) – a happy, go-lucky show about a family learning about the great outdoors and the grandeur of God’s creation. Actually it is a Cinemax show that deals with morality, betrayal, and has great fight scenes.

Jonathan is reading Foucault. <Nerd!> Something about Discipline and Punishment and is keeping an open mind about how the church can adopt more discipline and punishment when it comes to sin.

We’re working towards a regular schedule of every other week for podcast episodes and blog posts. It is good to be back on track after a while. Don’t forget to rate us on ITunes. Again, thanks for listening!

It is a Total Reboot!

Ok, here’s the situation, Charley left home for an extended vacation. He left the keys to the brand new Porsche… would he mind? Of course not!

Well actually, Charley is taking an extended leave of absence and we were going to let things just lie but the amount of complaints, weeping and moaning, whining, and threats concerning bodily harm made me think that perhaps we should do something. The podcast must continue! So… I found Darin Collins who was willing to be a guest host for the time being. Wasn’t that nice of Darin? There are a couple of other changes.

• ·      The podcast name has changed from 12enough to twelve enough. That is important, you need to spell it out for iTunes.
• ·      The hosting site is www.twelveenough.libsyn.com instead of what it used to be (which shall no longer be mentioned).
• ·      We are starting new with season 4 – maybe someday season 3 will be completed

So there it is. We are back, and moving, and doing the good work that we have been for all this time. Let us know if you have topic ideas and suggestions, and as always, thanks for listening (and in this case for reading).

Don't Answer the Phone!

Season 3, episode 9

Response-ability

How many of us like to feel important? How many of us like to feel like we have something important and worthwhile to offer? Perhaps an egoistical question, but something that lies beneath the reasoning that many of us go into the ministry, medicine, law, or many other vocations. We think we have something of value that can help people and we want to help people. This is good, but to a point.

There is the very real danger of over-responding. This is the danger of always being “on call” of always being ready to put on your firefighter’s hat and jump into the fire no matter what. This is the danger of looking to be the hero.

We don’t need another hero. At least not from you all the time.

There are other pastors. There are other doctors. There are other whatevers. So take a day off and don’t answer the phone.

If you do, try to figure out what is an emergency and what is not. Try to have a back-up plan or support group so you do not have to do everything. Try to be someone who is a pastor more than a chaplain – leading people in faith rather than only sitting with them in their wounds. Let your family make demands of you; they deserve your time as well. And finally trust that God is there and will stay there.

You are not God.

You cannot be God.

Stop it.

For your edification, here is the link to the article wementioned in this segment about churches demanding much from their pastors.

And the passage Charley opened with was Matthew 10.

Railige

Charley is angry that he is not sending birthday cards to family members. Sounds like Charley needs to get a grip.

Jonathan is tired of people looking to come up with clever ways to attract people to come to church, missing the point that it is about sharing the gospel, not attracting people to church.

He is also angry at interfaith discussions geared towards unity. Stop it. Look for a sense of understanding that will lead to peace and let go of the desire for unity. Sounds like Jonathan needs to loosen his grumpy old man pants.

Opening the Word –

Psalm 8

What a piece of work is man…

Notice how humanity is elevated and yet is still less than God. Feel good about yourself, but not too good. Enjoy the grandeur of God that is seen in creation. Feel good about yourself again, but not too good.

Watcha Into?

Charley – Vox AC4TV amplifier (note the glassing over of the eyes by everyone who does not play guitar) and Evernote (the app for everything).

Jonathan – the movie The Baader Mienhof Complex and the book The Anticipatory Corpse by Jeffery Bishop (which he wrote about in his blog)

Next episode – Being Called (don’t answer, it could be a collection agency!)